Blåhaj PieFedA Japanese boy noticed his butterflies seemed to recognize him. He spent two years making an experiment and proved that metamorphosis does not remove memories made during the caterpillar stage.
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time2lose
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Am I Zhuang-zhi who was just dreaming I was a butterfly, or am I a butterfly who is now dreaming that I am Zhuang-zhi?
When was this? Thought that got proven years ago.
you should run an experiment to prove memers forget previous news
Bullshit! Memes are the best news source out there! E.g. I just learned that there is this new Pokémon that is kind of slow.
A slow Pokémon? A slow Poké? Is he a Slowpoke?
already forgot the name of the Pokemon, interesting…
Yah this is from 2024 I believe, studying swallowtail butterflies. Couldn’t find the paper but there is a lot of blogspam out there talking about it
10-Year-Old Discovers That Butterfly Memories Survive Metamorphosis and Can Be Inherited
He also did an experiment where he subjected butterflies to an unpleasant smell so they learned to avoid it. Not only did the butterflies avoid it but their offspring avoided it too. And those butterflies offspring, down several generations.
It’s really groundbreaking science. Is it inherited memory? I don’t think science has an explanation for how it could be possible.
Imo, this was the coolest concept in the original Assassin’s Creed. The idea that skills and memories were “embedded” into our DNA and could be unlocked.
The same thing happens with rodents. They gave lady rodents a lemon smell (citruis isn’t pleasant for them) and it caused them to have a kink for lemon smell for like 3 generations. Crazy stuff.
As for an explanation, Epigenetics is where you want to look. Its a fairly new field, few dozen years old, and it studies methylation of DNA. Methylation (addition of a methyl group to the exposed end of DNA) or demethylation (removal of a methyl group) happens in response to experiences while alive, and changes how genes are expressed. Doesn’t change the DNA itself, but because the methyl groups are chemically bonded to the DNA some of them carry through the reproductive process. This means some of those changes are passed down. The epigenome isnt passed down completely, about half-2/3 of it is reset between generations, iirc, but what is passed down can cause stuff like this “inherited memory”.
The epigenome is really neat, and as far as we know, everything with DNA has one. In humans, for just one example tjat we know of, it can impact fat storage. If a person lives through starvation conditions, the bodies of their offspring will prefer to pack on weight because they think they are being born into famine. When researchers studied descendants of major famines (starting with those born during the famine), they found that those methylation points didn’t reset for 3-4 generations. Thats insane! Thats a hundred years! Its also why as identical twins age, they can start to look more and more different, and they -can- actually be DNA matched if you have the tools to look at the epigenome, because no two adults will have the same lived experiences.
It’s morphic resonance according to Rupert Sheldrake. Very legit science guy, trust me.
Makes me wonder where memories are stored. Maybe it’s more complicated than we think it is
Memories are stored in the balls
Woooooosh
?
The “also” is unnecessary, that’s the experiment he did.
It’s not mentioned in the post. He didn’t plan it as part of his original experiment. After his experiment was a success he noticed that his family all had migraines. He decided to try to test if memories could be inherited. It was a separate test the following year with new caterpillars.
Edit: typo
What was the original experiment again?
Testing weather caterpillars retain memory when they metamorphicize into butterflies
Oh, its in the title… My mind automatically translated it to the second experiment cause thats the most interesting one. Why would the post not mention it?
Someone should tell Adrian Tchaikovsky because wasn’t that one of the things in children of Time wasn’t that one of the abilities of the spiders? Now I got to go reread that book.
Lol. At least find the source and share information if you gonna copy a reddit post.
OK. Bro why u on reddit
The better question is why do you exclusively bring reddit content to lemmy/piefed?
For… content…
Mmmm yes exactly what Lemmy needs, more sourceless text on images
Beats ’nothing’…
Does it? You’d rather scroll Facebook slop than do something else?
Lucky bastard, every time I try accessing old reddit it doesn’t let me
You’re better off without it. Don’t turn back.
K
Summary: He took larvae (caterpillars), split them into two groups, and offered them sugar water and sugar water with lavender scent in it. The ones feeding on the lavender scent were then given a mild electric shock that make them vomit so they associated it with something bad. Then in their adult phase he offered the same two choices and the plain sugar water group went 50-50 to the choices whereas the shocked/lavender group went to the plain sugar water 80% of the time.
While looking into it I found references to studies on this dating back to at least 2008, studies on larval neural changes and fruit fly studies. They studied memory retention in moths also.
That is much more substantial than I expected it to be. Amazing!
I never stop loving science and the scientific method. One of the last things that always makes me happy.
We knew this though. Still ..never a bad idea to confirm with your own findings..
The fascinating thing is the caterpillar turns into goo in the pupa and still retains memories.
I’m actually flabbergasted that insects (Or whatever butterflies are) having some kind of memory over a longer time span in the first place ….. So much for how much I know about animals….
It’s always interesting every time this information gets reposted.
This kid is very smart and I wish him well.
But OP… I get to repost this next month..
I love the story, I’m just against people sharing a story that was shared on Reddit years ago.
I don’t hate you OP, I just wish you could be back on Reddit.
I tried to trace back how Old the original story is.. All I had was months and months of Reddit, Instagram and Facebook reusing the story.
It’s a good story but I don’t think we still need to keep sharing the story.
I’ve never heard this story 🤷🏻
Not all of us are terminally online. I’ve never seen it before.
I think it’s that they become ooze at one stage part.
Eh yeah, they basically become lifeform soup at some point, so I also would not have guessed they can retain memories. But apparently the soup remembers.
Okay thats crazyyy
When the caterpillar goes into its cocoon, it basically liquifies itself into a soup, including the nervous system. So for a while scientists didn’t know how much of the old caterpillar really remained in the new butterfly, or if it was essentially killing itself and birthing a new organism from the goop.
Unfortunately for the common misunderstanding, “basically” is doing too much heavy lifting there. Most of their cells are replaced or reconfigured during metamorphosis but the central nervous system is not reduced to an unconnected paste. Linking an ancient Reddit thread for an overview and terms to chase down if you’re curious. https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/mpqu2/what_happens_to_a_caterpillars_brain_during/c32x1pc/
You should look up what happens during metamorphosis. Their whole body turns to liquid in the cacoon and then they reform as a butterfly. So where would the memories be stored?
Not really. Elementary school mislead you.
I mean, that’s science, innit? You form a reasonable hypothesis and then ruthlessly attack it.
I think it’d be perfectly reasonable to ask why a butterfly needs to remember anything at all about what it did as a caterpillar. It likely has a completely different diet (maybe it doesn’t eat at all), it sees the world from a very different perspective, it is orders of magnitude faster, it has all that mating shit to figure out…
No link to anything at all?
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